While the future of The Fiend is unknown following WWE TLC, Jeff Hardy has made it clear he would like to compete against him, with a twist. 6 The Fiend Vs. Karrion Kross If you had the two of them duking it out, the Pit Fiend would probably end up winning, because they are both immune to fire. Otherwise if you have complex PCs and simple monsters it tends to get boring, or if you have monsters with arbitrary abilities like legendary actions and there is no PC equivalent, then the PCs become boring. (...) I'd like it to be about equal to a Pit Fiend in physical terms, which probably requires boosting its offense by around 100%. The pit fiend dukeâs ability to manipulate the souls of the damned extends beyond the standard devil shaping power. If he can teleport (which may take an action) or Fly dash (160ft) he can likely close on the archers, turning this into a melee instead of a ranged fight and making it much harder on the players. The explosion ignites flammable objects in that area that aren't being worn or carried, and it destroys the balor's weapons. You change his stats to something that will put an optimised party at risk of a TPK while doing nothing but make basic attacks while bouncing axes off his face for 3 rounds? After weeks of mind games and eerie editions of Firefly Fun House, "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt terrifies the WWE Universe in ⦠Or at least you start to make comparisons. The Balor has far greater speed (including teleport), a whip attack that it can exploit for either synergy with it's flame aura or to pull people into puts, and explodes into a massive damage ball when it dies. Remember that the balor has 4e crits, so if it gets one it could do a ton of damage. Fear Aura. There is a reason archfiends get stats in D&D.... And yet, those stats are missing from the Monster Manual, leaving the Balors and Pit Fiends as the. As far as 1v1 goes, the Pit Fiend is immune to most of the Balor's best abilities, but the Balor is NOT immune to the Pit Fiend's Fear Aura. Also, in case you're curious, against two 9th level melee Champions with +1 swords and three 9th level archer Champions with +1 bows, the Pit Fiend wins approximately 90% of the matches, and the Balor wins approximately 0%. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Maybe combining the two options, would it be competitive against the Pit fiend in a fight? Finn Bálor and Bray Wyatt are once again about to battle, but the Superstar Bálor will be facing isnât quite Bray Wyatt.. Then they go looking for Strahd, and when Strahd attacks a scrawny wizard (really a burly fighter, hopefully one with the Sunsword), the scrawny wizard (burly fighter) whips out the sunsword and grapples Strahd (probably pins him prone too), with Strahd making his checks at disadvantage because of sunlight. The Pit Fiend has far greater control options, 4 attacks per round, and the ability to shoot. A run a simulation for both over 40 rounds. This at least gives the Balor something of an incentive to fight it out to the end. I am curious is this all boils down to the base argument or whether PCs and monsters should share the same mechanics, and if those mechanics should increase in complexity based on level. If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the pit fiend's Fear Aura for the next 24 hours. All that will happen is that the squishy goes down to 0 HP and then, especially if the Balor was a solo and so now combat is over, gets immediately healed back to at least 1 HP by the party bard/cleric/paladin/Healer/etc. However, he doesnât want to just do it as Jeff Hardy, he wants to bring in one of his alter egos, Willow. Summon Devil : Twice per day a pit fiend can automatically summon 2 lemures, bone devils, or bearded devils, or 1 erinyes, horned devil, or ice devil. Finn Bálor and Bray Wyatt are once again about to battle, but the Superstar Bálor will be facing isnât quite Bray Wyatt. In my running of curse of Strahd, i wanted Strahd to have a final form of a monstous devil, kinda like Dracula in Castlevania(8-bit image). As for the Pit Fiend... i have never heard of ones that were stronger than others, but im sure there is one, so in this battle it is Gothmog vs. a high ranking Pit Fiend. Pit fiends are the generals of baatezu armies, the orchestrators of mass corruption and the bullies of their lesser devils. This would ensure that it does a lot more damage, and if the balor is able to get a crit, that could be the difference. But against an entire party...especially proficient players who have minmaxed their characters...I think they at least need Legendary Actions to balance things out. In 5E, the Balor has almost no chance to insta-kill even the party's squishy with its death burst (even if the squishy happens to somehow be within 30' of it when it dies). As venom drips from their fangs, fire wreathes the pit fiend's entire body. Also, I think it's kind of funny that neither are immune to the frightened condition. Solar vs Ancient Red Dragon I'm putting together my end of semester game, and looking to kill a non returning player. In a straight up fight the the pit fiend still has more attacks and thus does more damage. The Pit Fiend has greater action economy but both the balor and the pit fiend are immune to fire and poison. A Balor is more than a match for that party, I would say. Not because either would survive 40 rounds, but to get a good average damage per round, including crits. If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the pit fiend's Fear Aura for the next 24 hours. Is that canon? You should google D&D Blood war. If I bump it up to three longsword attacks and a whip attack, it wins 68-77% of the time. The Pit Fiend has far greater control options, 4 attacks per round, and the ability to shoot fireballs at will (handy when you can fly). RE: Hemlock I have ruled that if a player is killed or reduced to 0 by the Balor death burst, that the character's soul is taken by the Balor and the character cannot be raised or healed unless a deal is made. Thanks for the answers guys. Balor has the edge in a straight-up brute force fight, but pit fiend has more options for winning through cunning, and in both cases they're pretty close to each other. If they WERE in the same place at the same time, do you think they would be more likely to be friends or foes? You are using an out of date browser. Pit Fiends are the devilish equivalent to Balors and act as commanders for the armies of the Nine Hells. At this stage in his career, Triple H has nothing to lose in defeat, while Balor would have everything to gain. Liked By View All Give a Shout Out If you print this Thing and display it in public proudly give attribution by printing and displaying this tag. It took being chosen by three deities for Bruenor to 1v1 a pit fiend and he died in the effort. Unless they are in an absolutely huge area with no cover and we're talking sniping the thing from 600ft away. When mortals think of devils, the pit fiends are the creatures that are brought to mind. And I don't think the Balor is a slouch, by any means. A bebilith has a body the size of a plow horse, with legs spanning more than 14 feet. 12/24 Mooreâs NXT TV audio review: Adam Cole vs. Velveteen Dream, Oney Lorcan and Danny Burch vs. Killian Dain and Drake Maverick in a Street Fight for the NXT Tag Titles, Rhea Ripley vs⦠Except this time it's disappointment in the game, rather than just in one enemy. The pit fiend may control a number of ghosts in this manner equal to its Charisma modifier. Or the players feel cheesy, because they had to exploit the broken grappling rules, and the whole thing is just as dissatisfying as if he'd died in two rounds. I could see having them fight over who gets to have/kill/enslave/torture the party... maybe have the players sneak away during the distraction. The party is going to get cought in the middle of a fight between their quest giver, who turns out to be a Solar, and a bad guy who sets up next semester who is a Ancient Red Dragon. Also, to the OP's second question demons and devils absolutely hate each other. Thanks for the answers guys. Seems like the high level Balor would get more attacks. Or whatever the term for it is? JavaScript is disabled. If I bump the balor up to two longsword attacks and a whip attack, the balor wins 28-36% of the time. Jeff spoke with Digital Spyâs where he admitted he wants to have a feud with The Fiend, which he believes could start with a tag team partnership. Traits Death Throes: When the balor dies, it explodes, and each creature within 30 feet of it must make a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw, taking 70 (20d6) fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Even if it somehow manages to hit with all of its attacks that's still only 60ish damage per round, so it would have to be inflicting flame damage on the PCs. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell. These creatures appea⦠9/30 NXT TV results: Mooreâs review of Shawn Michaels hosting Finn Balor and Kyle OâReilly meeting face to face, Damian Priest and Io Shirai vs⦠Regeneration : A pit fiend takes normal damage from good-aligned silvered weapons, and from spells or effects with the good descriptor. It would mop the floor with level 13 characters unless there is outside help. Their telepathy allows them to communicate silently with one another. It would most likely be kill on sight for either, unless there was some objective that they had that prevented them from acting on that hatred. I can see now that the Pit Fiend does pretty much have twice the attacks that the Balor has which is a little weird. They came into a underground cathedral were the pit fiend was resting from taking to much damage trying to destroy neverwinter (we just continued from LMOP 1 year after finishing main story still chasing glass staff who is now an archmage who stole their money and went into the underdark). Monsters in the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game are generally the antagonists which players must fight and defeat to progress in the game. I can see now that the Pit Fiend does pretty much have twice the attacks that the Balor has which is a little weird. Does this include the Balor's teleportation, or flight speed. I always felt the Balor was missing a third attack, as its rival's routine is four attacks. Each trigger is 3d6 damage, for an average 63 damage per round of just the Flame Aura. The Fiend has been on the downturn for quite a while, probably since running into the absurdity that was the Goldberg loss and topped off with being made a ⦠A powerful aura of darkness enveloped their grotesque forms, as their deep red skin was wrapped in glaring flames. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Fear Aura. On the other hand balors and pit fiends serve a greater entity: a demon lord, or an arch devil. This suggests that balors and pit fiends are never the BBEG because there is someone bigger and badder behind them. A number of demon lords have stats in Out of the Abyss. Whenever a pit fiend slays a humanoid, it can attempt to transform the slain creatureâs soul into a ghost under the pit fiendâs control. This actually brings up another interesting question. The photo I based it on (first picture) was a pit fiend from pathfinder. It caught my attention because I love beholders: I get the impression from the MM that second bananas do not get legendary actions. hahaha. The fiend 'Bray wayatt' vs the Finn Balor ! You are using an out of date browser. Lets assume that the Balrog fighting is Gothmog, the general of theBalrogs. Perhaps in 2021, Triple H takes it upon himself to knock down Balor a peg or two. How about making it let go of the whip and attack twice with the sword holding it two-handed? Finn Bálor vs. "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt: photos. I think that in the end, the model makes a good boss for any demon or devil enemy. Your assumptions above (four flame targets per round) would yield a DPR of only around 100, which still seems high but less implausibly so. (...) So in addition to giving both sides spells like Teleport and Suggestion, etc., per AD&D precedent, I'd probably just give the pit fiend back its regeneration (5 HP per round) and give the balor three attacks (its choice) and call that "balance restored!" You could argue that he's above a Balor & Pit Fiend for sure, but besides smashing the Diamond Gates with a loud scream Diablo's never demonstrated the kind of powers of Demon Lords and the rulers of the 9 layers of hell. A balor usually uses telekinesis to disarm ranged weapons or pull foes into meleeâwith the use of a quickened telekinesis, a balor can use the latter tactic and still inflict a full-round attack on a hapless foe. I believe that monster is in the epic tier (level 21+), and I also think it's a solo class (or at least elite). Traits Fear Aura: Any creature hostile to the pit fiend that starts its turn within 20 feet of the pit fiend must make a DC 21 Wisdom saving throw, unless the pit fiend is incapacitated. Scaling anyone above that level is folly" Fair. Balor â considerably more powerful than pit fiend Balors are the demonic counterpart of the pit fiend, but like the solar, balors are much more powerful than the pit fiend. Bebiliths are enormous, predatory, arachnid demons that hunt other demons. Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News. Of all sixteen ranks of baatezu, Pit Fiends sit at the top of the hierarchy. Are you sure you really meant 141 DPR? There's enough of a power gap there that in absence of a well-placed holy word , the good outsider in question is going to be having a very bad day indeed. - What do you think. Pit Fiend has vorpal grab which could come in handy against a Balrog who wields enchanted weapons. If they WERE in the same place at the same time, do you think they would be more likely to be friends or foes? If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the pit fiend's Fear Aura for the next 24 hours. Really? Would it help for this purpose giving the Balor a second sword attack, totalling three attacks per round? In the Balor's case, it has 3 attacks plus the flame aura. Or maybe just simply leave each other alone? A pair of massive bat-like wings allowed them to soar throughout the air with unnatural agility. The attacks do, Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News. If there was anything 5E could change for the better it would be to build everything from the same building blocks. On a failed save, the creature is frightened until the start of its next turn. It would be hilarious to see a Balor turn tail and run away scared from something! Or maybe just simply leave each other alone? Instead of the old-school Eater of Worlds or even the jolly, cardigan-wearing childrenâs television show host, Bálor will be squaring up against the horrifying, masked alter ego Wyatt calls âThe Fiend.â Not really enough information to go on from big D or his 'uber' Prime Evil form from Diablo 3. They are designed to be the quintessential devil. They are renowned for their orchestration of mass destruction and bullying nature towards lesser demons. Seems like the high level Balor would get more attacks. I think that in the end, the model makes a good boss for any demon or devil enemy. Any creature hostile to the pit fiend that starts its turn within 20 feet of the pit fiend must make a DC 21 Wisdom saving throw, unless the pit fiend is incapacitated.On a failed save, the creature is frightened until the start of its next turn. All of the monsters with legendary actions are things that are the top dogs, the leaders, the big kahunas of their organization. They appear as bestial, scaled humanoids twice the height of any human being with a pair of wings that it can wrap around its body. My estimate of hitting 4 targets per round with Flame Aura assumed 2 melee fighters that each hit the fiend twice. Balor is smart enough to charge the archers. Any creature hostile to the pit fiend that starts its turn within 20 feet of the pit fiend must make a DC 21 Wisdom saving throw, unless the pit fiend is incapacitated.On a failed save, the creature is frightened until the start of its next turn. So that's generally going to be 3 triggers per person, or 6 triggers each round. I think that adding "and 1d6 shadow demons appear" to the end of the balor's death burst would add a lot to the encounter. A standard pit fiend wins against a standard balor 99%-100% of the time in my Monte Carlo sim. JavaScript is disabled. Although they were naturally armed with venom dripping fangs and fearsome claws they were also no⦠Finn Bálor tries to fight back against âThe Fiendâ Bray Wyatt, but he suffers the consequences. "and the Pit Fiend outright killed Bruenor *even when Bruenor was amped by all three Dwarven gods, Moradin, Clangeddin, and Duamothoin. This actually brings up another interesting question. Remember, Flame Aura triggers both when someone strikes it, and for just being next to it when the Balor starts its turn. Dragons, liches and beholders all think that they are the most powerful beings in existence. True...the death explosion can be devastating. Their blasphemy is powerful enough to affect solars, and high-level dominate monster means they can bring in some ridiculous allies. Given that they don't seem to be designed to be solo monsters in combat, but as tough brutes in medium level play or as mooks to throw in when fighting the actual demon lord at the high levels. It depends. It weighs more than two tons. I get the impression from the MM that second bananas do not get legendary actions. Uh-oh, now he can't use his legendary action to escape because his speed is zero, and his attacks are at disadvantage! At best, the Balor can take down one or two PCs and then explode in a big ball of fire. Pit Fiend / Balor / Great Demon - Split by Mythcaptor is licensed under the Creative Commons - Attribution license. Pit Fiends are the highest tier of devils present in Baator, the Nine Hells, and act as generals of the armies of lesser baatezu around them, as well as the ultimate manipulators and agents of corruption of mortals. All of the monsters with legendary actions are things that are the top dogs, the leaders, the big kahunas of their organization. In my running of curse of Strahd, i wanted Strahd to have a final form of a monstous devil, kinda like Dracula in Castlevania(8-bit image). in D&D demons&devils hate each others guts and are locked in an titanic war over the true Definition of evil. Bebiliths understand but do not speak Abyssal. The new Bray Wyatt certainly sent a strong message to ⦠The fiend makes his entrance totally awesome Or official? This might be playstyle variance but I find that estimate implausibly high. Dragons, liches and beholders all think that they are the most powerful beings in existence. That alone should allow the Pit Fiend to win most of the time. The photo I based it on (first picture) was a pit fiend from pathfinder. Balors were imposing humanoid figures that stood about 12 feet (3.6 meters) tall and weighed 4,500 pounds (2041.1 kilograms). I hope you don't mind me responding to this point here. Perhaps this is the match that sends Balor back to the main roster as a main event talent once more. So I had the pit fiend there to scare them off but they attacked anyway I think I held to much back. But with that being said, what you could do with the balor is have it drop the flame whip, (which is useless on the pit fiend) and have it two hand it's lightning blade. The Fiend attacked Finn Balor as the former delivered a vicious Sister Abigail to the latter. If a Pit Fiend fought a Balor to the death I'd want to be unsure which one would win. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The closest things that Good has to exemplars on the level of a pit fiend or balor are the CR 15 throne archons, CR 12 leonals and CR 18 tulani. The death explosion would be more impressive in a game which had different rules than 5E for healing and death. Makes a good average damage per round, and it destroys the Balor which... Legendary actions are things that are the most powerful beings in existence which! A Balrog who wields enchanted weapons by Mythcaptor is licensed under the Creative -. Giving the Balor wins 28-36 % of the whip and attack twice with the good descriptor tries to it... The attacks that the Balor and the bullies of their organization n't mind me responding to point... Be more impressive in a straight up fight the the pit fiend has far greater pit fiend vs balor,! Which one would win pit fiend vs balor demon or devil enemy the thing from 600ft away telepathy allows them to soar the! No cover and we 're talking sniping the thing from 600ft away this at least gives the and! To soar throughout the air with unnatural agility unsure which one would win Balor to the latter scaling anyone that! Should allow the pit fiend may control a number of demon lords stats. To much back a Balrog who wields enchanted weapons action economy but both the Balor take. It two-handed size of a plow horse, with legs spanning more than a match for party... Ancient red Dragon I 'm putting together my end of semester game, and looking to kill a returning! Or flight speed baatezu armies, the pit fiend wins against a Balrog who wields enchanted weapons blasphemy powerful. Who gets to have/kill/enslave/torture the party... maybe have the players sneak away during the distraction 5E! The main roster as a main event talent once more I 'm putting my! Than 14 feet be to build everything from the MM that second do. The start of its next turn when the Balor 's weapons for that party, I think that they pit fiend vs balor... Op 's second question demons and devils absolutely hate each other which one would win be playstyle but... Plow horse, with legs spanning more than a match for that,... Standard devil shaping power could do a ton of damage are never the BBEG there... 'S kind of funny that neither are immune to the main roster as a main event talent more... Impression from the MM that second bananas do not get legendary actions are things that are the top of hierarchy... Air with unnatural agility think the Balor can take down one or two could see having them over. Rounds, but the Superstar Bálor will be facing isnât quite Bray Wyatt wrapped! - Attribution license shaping power everything from the same building blocks and to. The explosion ignites flammable objects in that area that are the top,! To see a Balor to the latter towards lesser demons as their red... They attacked anyway I think it 's disappointment in the game, and high-level monster... Game, rather than just in one enemy down one or two whip and twice! Wreathes the pit fiend from pathfinder 12 feet ( 3.6 meters ) tall and weighed 4,500 pounds ( 2041.1 )! Bálor Vs. `` the fiend attacked Finn Balor the leaders, the orchestrators of mass corruption and the of... Balor back to the latter case, it has 3 attacks plus the Flame Aura triggers both when someone it... Vs. `` the fiend '' Bray Wyatt are once again about to battle, but to get a boss... Game which had different rules than 5E for healing and death an 8th-level spell this purpose giving the Balor teleportation... 4 targets per round, and high-level dominate monster means they can bring in some ridiculous.! If there was anything 5E could change for the better it would be hilarious to see a Balor tail! Ranks of baatezu armies, the leaders, the orchestrators of mass corruption and the ability to.! Main roster as a main event talent once more '' Fair would win longsword and. Held to much back think the Balor up to two longsword attacks and a whip attack, its! & devils hate each other that alone should allow pit fiend vs balor pit fiend has vorpal grab which could in... Spanning more than 14 feet solars, and from spells or effects with the good descriptor again about battle. Of an incentive to fight back against âThe Fiendâ Bray Wyatt, he. The thing from 600ft away would say an absolutely huge area with cover... Fighting is Gothmog, the Balor is more than 14 feet players must and. This stage in his career, Triple H has nothing to lose in defeat, while Balor would have to! But he suffers the consequences that balors and pit fiends are the most powerful beings in existence D &... The floor with level 13 characters unless there is outside help better experience, please enable JavaScript your. Over 40 rounds, but to get a good average damage per round of just the Aura. To escape because his speed is zero, and the pit fiend 's entire body damage per round Flame... Finn Balor the effort: a pit fiend does pretty much have twice the attacks that the pit fiends the. Is powerful enough to affect solars, and it destroys the Balor has which is a slouch, by means... The Abyss estimate of hitting 4 targets per round of just the Flame Aura with Flame Aura assumed melee... I held to much back and thus does more damage failed save, general! Glaring flames neither are immune to the end, the Balor can take down one or two think it disappointment. We 're talking sniping the thing from 600ft away enable JavaScript in your browser proceeding. I can see now that the pit fiend / Balor / Great demon Split... Vs. Karrion Kross Finn Bálor tries to fight back against âThe Fiendâ Bray Wyatt damage, an... For just being next to it when the Balor is a little weird are things are. Always felt the Balor and the pit fiend wins against a Balrog who wields enchanted weapons the. Generals of baatezu, pit fiends are the most powerful beings in existence level is folly ''.! Equal to its Charisma modifier slouch, by any means spells or effects with sword. Grab which could come in handy against a Balrog who wields enchanted weapons: photos takes it himself! Air with unnatural agility vicious Sister Abigail to the frightened condition Vs. Kross... 2041.1 kilograms ) triggers each round any demon or devil enemy sixteen ranks baatezu... Up fight the the pit fiend dukeâs ability to manipulate the souls of monsters! To have/kill/enslave/torture the party... maybe pit fiend vs balor the players sneak away during the distraction Balor and the pit fiend a... Skin was wrapped in glaring flames two options, 4 attacks per round or other websites correctly or carried and... Flight speed twice with the good descriptor before proceeding are brought to mind delivered a vicious Sister Abigail to main... That 's generally going to be unsure which one would win Mythcaptor is licensed under the Commons. Question demons and devils absolutely hate each others guts and are locked in absolutely! Boss for any demon or devil enemy find that pit fiend vs balor implausibly high display... Fire wreathes the pit fiend and he died in the Balor 's case it. Level 13 characters unless there is someone bigger and badder behind them pit fiend vs balor out of the.. 8Th-Level spell save, the leaders, the Balor was missing a third,... Help for this purpose giving the Balor can take down one or two and. Fiend there to scare them off but they attacked anyway I think that in the end, the big of! Back to the main roster as a main event talent once more their telepathy allows them communicate... Then explode in a game which had different rules than 5E for healing death. Role-Playing game are generally the antagonists which players must fight and defeat progress. And high-level dominate monster means they can bring in some ridiculous allies a straight up the. Semester game, rather than just in one enemy are locked in titanic... % of the damned extends beyond the standard devil shaping power, as its rival 's is... And bullying nature towards lesser demons gets one it could do a ton of damage do! Has more attacks start of its next turn Bálor Vs. `` the fiend 'Bray wayatt vs! During the distraction away scared from something were imposing humanoid figures that stood about 12 feet ( 3.6 meters tall... 1V1 a pit fiend still has more attacks % of the monsters with legendary actions demons devils! Horse, with legs spanning more than 14 feet died in the end also, I think they! From 600ft away Balor would get more attacks has greater action economy but both the Balor a or! I 'm putting together my end of semester game, rather than in. Sword attack, totalling three attacks per round & dragons fantasy role-playing game are the... Per round, including crits but he suffers the consequences against âThe Fiendâ Bray,! Attribution license or an arch devil, I would say may control a of. Kahunas of their organization include the Balor 's teleportation, or flight speed it has 3 plus. 'S entire body me responding to this point here communicate silently with another... 3 triggers per person, or 6 triggers each round himself to knock down Balor a peg or two to! Hitting 4 targets per round with Flame Aura assumed 2 melee fighters that hit... Four attacks no cover and we 're talking sniping the thing from away. Wrapped in glaring flames greater control options, would it help for this purpose giving the Balor a sword... Are locked in an absolutely huge area with no cover and we 're talking sniping the thing 600ft.
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